Why did you decide to tap into the non-gaming vertical now? Games have shaped how an entire generation expects digital products to behave. Feedback, progression, rewards, and mastery aren’t “game features” anymore they’re user expectations. With 3.3 billion gamers worldwide, gaming has become the largest testing ground for user acquisition, retention, and monetisation, effectively stress-testing what works at scale. At the same time, app stores are more competitive than ever, with a small number of games dominating attention. Non-gaming apps are now facing the same problems as games have solved. From discoverability to how to engage users deeply, bring them back consistently, and build long-term value. For Gen Z especially, game mechanics aren’t a novelty - they're a behaviour they have grow up with. Yet only a small fraction of non-gaming apps are applying real game logic and behavioural theory in a meaningful way. What makes the timing even more interesting is what’s coming next. As apps begin to centralise multiple AI agents, LLMs, and increasingly complex systems, user experience is becoming harder, not easier. Games have spent decades making deeply complex systems feel intuitive, learnable, and rewarding. That “game-thinking” around onboarding, feedback, progression, and cognitive load is going to be critical in an AI-saturated world. That gap is the opportunity. The timing is right to bring proven gaming thinking into non-gaming products - not just to drive engagement, but to make complexity usable in a way that’s more intentional, more human, and genuinely valuable. You’re very much into the intersection of Apps and Games. What are the biggest opportunities you identify? There are three big opportunities we’re focused on. First is user acquisition. Games have been forced to innovate in UA faster than any other category - creative testing, rapid iteration, and performance storytelling. Non-gaming apps can borrow heavily from that playbook to stand out in increasingly crowded stores and feeds. Second is people and culture. Gaming has cracked communities, identity, and participation. The reality is that both your audience and your team are already gamers, whether they identify that way or not. Behaviours like progression, feedback, mastery, and belonging are now cultural defaults. Most apps still treat users as customers rather than audiences, and build teams without fully recognising the behaviours they’re designing for. The opportunity is to apply a gaming lens on both sides: helping founders build stronger teams, and helping them engage their audience in more participatory, community-driven ways. That’s how products become things people feel part of, not just things they use. Third, closely connected to that, is gamification done properly. Not surface-level badges or points, but real game logic: progression systems, feedback loops, motivation, and behavioural design. When product mechanics align with how people actually behave, you unlock stronger engagement, retention, and long-term value. Where apps and games truly meet is when products stop being purely functional and start becoming experiences people want to return to. Let’s talk about your Gamification OS because this can be a game-changer. Break it down for our readers! Gamification OS is our second product, and at its core it’s very simple: Gamification On Demand. “Transferable skills” is one of the most overused phrases of the last decade, but in gaming it’s real and massively underutilised outside the category. What we’re doing is bringing the best gaming strategists, product and game designers, behavioural scientists, and UX and data leads from the games industry directly to ambitious app founders. The goal is to help them integrate meaningful game mechanics into the customer journey to drive engagement, retention, and long-term loyalty. The system is modular and broken into six parts, so teams can plug in wherever they are in their product lifecycle: Pattern Library A curated library of proven engagement mechanics—things like streaks, quests, progression systems, and in-app economies. Behavioural Templates Ready-made structures for onboarding journeys, mission systems, and habit-forming loops grounded in behavioural science. Gamification Simulator A way to model and stress-test loops, XP curves, reward pacing, and difficulty before shipping anything. KPI & Experimentation Framework Clear guidance on how to measure impact, run experiments, and continuously tune the system. Live Ops Playbooks Recurring engagement beats, event structures, content cycles, and retention campaigns borrowed directly from live game operations. Personalisation Framework Behaviour-based segmentation, adaptive difficulty, dynamic rewards, and progression paths that respond to how each user actually behaves. Put together, Gamification OS helps apps move beyond shallow gamification and build systems that genuinely keep people engaged over time, and improve the product and the experience in a meaningful way If a non-gaming app would like to start gamifying, what are the simplest 3 steps they can follow? The simplest 3 steps to start gamifying a non-gaming app 1. Start with behaviour and brand Before adding points or badges, get clear on the one or two behaviours that actually drive value in your product, daily use, completion, contribution, learning, etc. At the same time, make sure any game mechanics feel coherent with your brand and product promise. The strongest gamification is truly integrated, not layered on. When this work is done early, it avoids gimmicks and creates systems that can scale long term, not just deliver short-term spikes. 2. Add a visible sense of progress Progress is the most powerful and underused game mechanic. This can be as simple as streaks, levels, milestones, or completion bars. When users can see themselves moving forward in a way that feels natural to the brand, they’re far more likely to come back. 3. Create a repeatable loop Define a simple loop: action → feedback → reward → next goal. It doesn’t need to be complex. What matters is that the loop resets and gives users a reason to return. Once that’s working, you can layer in depth, personalisation, and live moments over time - without breaking the core experience. 4. Design for loyalty, not just engagement Move beyond short-term rewards and think in terms of long-term loyalty. This could mean status, mastery, access, or recognition, not just discounts or points. The best loyalty systems make users feel invested and valued, turning regular users into long-term advocates. Non-related to gaming…You sold a company to Keyword Studios in 2025, what were your biggest learnings as a founder going through an exit? The biggest lesson was date before you marry. We spent nearly a year getting to know Keywords before completing the deal to make sure Waste had found the right home. We were clear on why they wanted us, where we fit, and how we could succeed inside the group, and just as importantly, they understood the kind of business and culture they were buying. Another learning was how differently risk works at scale. As an independent company, you take big risks because you have to, playing it safe usually means standing still. Large organisations do take risks, but they move much more slowly and require broader alignment. Neither is right or wrong, but founders need to understand that shift going in. Finally, be brutally clear about what you want from the exit. Do you want to leave after the earn-out? Do you want to build a long-term executive role? Have a clear mental picture of that outcome and revisit it regularly. The real danger is drifting into a situation you didn’t consciously choose and losing the fire that made you a founder in the first place - even if you do decide the exec route is right for you.